Thursday, February 21, 2008

Conversation Starter

Below is an excerpt from an email that I received from a co-op supporter and my response. Gary's comments are in blue and mine are in black. What do you think?

I am sorry, but I need to take a moment to call into question some of the assertions that Gary has made about PCC, which will also be insightful for those who would like to know more of my perspective about the prospects for our own co-op...


I see PCC Natural Markets as our number one competitor.


I don't believe that the majority of natural and organic grocery dollars being spent in Tacoma/Pierce County are being spent at PCC. It is more likely that spending is spread around between the competitors that the feasibility study identified - Fred Meyer, Met Market, Marlenes, Trader Joes, etc. If PCC ever ventured into Tacoma, well, that would be a different story. But that would be antithetical to one of the seven principles of cooperatives and I don't believe they would ever make that move. Unless, of course, our effort fails and they want to expand their market area.

They are big business with a very good marketing approach. They will give the appearance of being “like” a food coop.

Yes, they have 9 stores with a tenth coming on in the middle of this year. Yes, they have excellent marketing and advertising skills. The fact is: they are a food coop. They are not whole foods. They are simply one version of a food co-op, and they are "big" in every sense of the word.

They get their customers to sign up as “members”. They say they give back 3% of your purchases to local charities to give the appearance of being “locally friendly”.

They have over 40,000 members - the largest in the country for food co-ops. (Incidentally, co-ops want to get their customers to sign up as 'members.') If it is true that they give back 3% of their annual sales to local charities, that translates into over $3 million in donations for 2007. That is more than smoke and mirrors can do to support the local community.

They are big enough to give the appearance of being low cost with “lost leaders”.

The use of loss leaders in a retail setting is the norm. Basically, it means that they sell certain items at reduced or absent margins in order to encourage spending in other parts of the department/store that have "regular" margins.

They like to make claims of supporting local farmers.

They do make those claims and they can back them up with the actual dollars that they spend buying from local farms. They actually recently liberalized their policy so that individual stores can now make their own purchases directly from individual farms, as opposed to their previous arrangement where a farm had to be able to sell to all of the stores in order to get a contract. This means that smaller farms now have access to the shelves at a PCC.

To me they are snakes in our back yard as they are primarily going to push long distance processed foods at a high cost. The working class cannot afford them.

Mmm... don't know how to respond here. This is a complicated issue. Yes, they stock processed foods on their shelves. But are processed foods more expensive than fresh foods? (don't get me started.) By using merchandising tactics like "loss leaders" they can subsidize the lower prices of fresh foods with higher margins on processed foods (theoretically; don't know whether they are actually doing this). My belief is that we should do what we can to make "long distance processed foods" unaffordable - and at the same time, reduce the cost of fresh foods - so that segments of our population that have been marginalized in the fresh/local/organic food movement in this country can gain access to "real" food.

We can beat them with the “open source” business model where we get the membership to volunteer their talents like you and I are doing to provide the functions that will keep overhead low and basically manage the business with a higher level of local knowledge and insight.


What does this mean, exactly? I want my co-op to be managed as a business. Sure, "local knowledge and insight" is desirable, but not at the expense of a well-run, sophisticated business. Membership provides capital and governance (through an elected BOD) - and a few volunteer hours here and there, if that's the majority opinion - and then should let those with the skills and abilities to run a grocery store create a highly functional operation.

We can also get creative to keep the distribution costs low by actually being local and working with other local establishments like the restaurants or schools to give us the volume we need to be competitive with PCC. We can also team up strategically with other local businesses like Marlene’s and Dave’s Produce to work against the likes of PCC and Whole Foods.

Again, your line of reasoning assumes that PCC and Whole Foods are our main competitors, which I don't believe to be the case. Competition is the name of the game when it comes to markets. Markets reward firms that are successful and punish those that fail (to be competitive in the market). Co-ops are not immune to this fact of capitalism. Unfortunate as it may be for some, Marlenes and Daves (along with Safeway and Kroger) would be our competitors. As far as working with other establishments like restaurants and schools: definitely! We would certainly be an asset to them, especially restaurants, who will typically order through co-ops at a bulk discount rate. That is, assuming they are members. Individuals would be eligible to receive the same discount.


That feels better. I love the fact that Gary has given us the opportunity to have this discussion. These opposing viewpoints are representative of some of the finer points of cooperative businesses. This is also an example of what makes the open, democratic nature of co-ops so appealing to me. We can have these discussions, but in the end one paradigm is going to have to emerge over the other. Which will it be? How much overlap of the two is possible?

I can't wait to find out.

In cooperation,

Dan

11 comments:

Anonymous said...

What is PCC? Sorry, I skimmed the blog but couldn't find a definition? Is it a distributer?

Megan said...

PCC: Seattle-area food co-op. Here's the link:

http://www.pccnaturalmarkets.com/locations/ws.html

I've got to say, like Dan, I don't see PCC as big competition for a Tacoma Co-op (who would drive to Seattle if they didn't have to? assuming that our co-op is responsive to community requests and stocks everything people need).

That said, I find the idea of a smaller, 'home-grown' co-op with lots of volunteers and working-class-accessible prices, much more appealing than the PCC model. Dan, I understand "well-run," but why "sophisticated?" I don't necessarily want to pay for sophisticated.

Anonymous said...

Well, I guess that answers your question from me (same anonymous). I didn't even know what Seattle's co-op was called. No way I'm using fuel and driving to Seattle to regularly shop at a cooperative. That defeats the whole purpose! I'm in Tacoma and I think people in Tacoma like me shop at various local grocers trying to find the same quality we'd find just shopping at our own cooperative. Kudos to you all and this site!

Dan said...

Megan, I'd be interested to know more about what you understand to be the correlation between a store staffed primarily with volunteers and 'working-class-accessible-prices.' I think that your perception mirrors that of pretty much anybody that applies basic logic to the issue: less paid staff = lower prices.

We have seen some preliminary findings from the feasibility study which looks more closely at this very issue. When comparing two local co-op's, one with a large number of volunteers staffing the store and one with an all paid staff, the numbers are counter-intuitive: labor costs as a percentage of contribution margin (total sales minus cost of goods sold) are less at the all paid staff co-op. So you could expect to find lower prices at the co-op without volunteers working the registers, stocking the shelves, etc.

And one of the most salient benefits of a co-op, in my opinion, is the creation of jobs that pay a living wage. You are right in calling me out for using the term 'sophisticated' - it sounds very elitist and stifling indeed. How about 'efficient' or 'staffed by knowledgeable professionals?'

amyk said...

I lived in Ravenna in Seattle when Whole Foods opened. The Ravenna PCC quickly went out of business. Fortunately, there are more PCC's which have continued to thrive. I would not mind a PCC Tacoma, or a similar style co-op. PCC gives so much to the community and in return is a delightful place to shop. A friend of mine in Seattle regularly buys locally produced organic vat pasturized milk that is sold in glass bottles at the Greenlake PCC. (The glass bottles are then returned and reused.) This milk is hugely popular at PCC right now and I must say it tastes better than any milk I've tried in Tacoma. The PCC newsletter is incredibly informative. When I go to Seattle, I often stop at PCC and have noticed that the prices of local produce are significantly cheaper than what I pay at Marlene's.

The processed products at PCC seem to be the same brands as at any natural foods grocery store and I hope that at the Tacoma co-op it might be possible to buy, for example local tomatoes or tomato sauce in glass jars instead of the standard Muir Glen can tomatoes.

I much prefer the idea of a paid staff.

megan said...

I have to be honest, Dan and Amy K: I don't know that much about PCC. Olympia's is the only food co-op that fills that special little co-op place in my heart, so I'm really just speaking from what I know.

The Olympia Food Co-op (OFC)--which relies on a lot of volunteer support--has prices that
have always been much lower than natural foods at any other store in
the Olympia area. It is my impression (though I know, my impression
may be biased) that their prices are generally lower than other co-ops
(Any good co-op ought to be significantly lower than Marlenes or
Met Market.) I'm glad that a feasibility study is being done, because
I know that a store can't be built on impressions. I'll be curious to
see how my impressions stand up to the data.

You might consider the following as one way to measure affordability: Assess the
amount or percentage of purchases at various co-ops that are paid by
EBT (food stamps). It would be one indicator, at least, of which
models are effectively reaching out to serve people at the poverty
level. And making natural, fresh and local foods available to the
lowest income families (the ones who, statistically, are at highest
risk of eating poorly) is a priority that most co-op's don't take on
very effectively.

I also love the volunteer system simply because it is an effective way of encouraging community investment in the co-op. I'd like to see Tacoma's Co-op as much a community gathering/ food education
center as a place to buy my food.

As for professionalism? I have shopped at many co-ops with $8/hour part time stockers and clerks who are clueless about the store (La Crosse, WI, for example). In my 2+ years as a cheese packager at OFC (customers asked questions of me nearly every shift). Specialty cheese is one area where volunteers make all the difference in keeping prices low-- cutting and packaging takes time, and is, from what I understand, the primary reason for the huge markups on cheese. I had regular customers who told me that they traveled from outside Olympia because the specialty cheese prices were so much lower than anywhere else.

mig said...

It's great to see such a well-informed discussion going on here. I think Dan's approach is right on -- we need a well-run co-op that serves a range of people in the community, but that doesn't compromise on quality.

I think PCC fits that bill, and I went there often when I lived in Seattle. While I still occasionally drop by PCC when I'm up north, it would be great to have similar quality products available for a similar price down here -- and I'd probably never bother with PCC. Marlene's -- especially the one in F. Way -- is a pretty good store, but it is more expensive than PCC, and neither of its locations are convenient for people who live near downtown Tacoma or in the North End. The organic produce at Dave's, Metropolitan Market, and Stadium Thriftway doesn't come close to the quality found at a good co-op.

Anonymous said...

The email address comes back undeliverable. I'd like to join the mailing list to keep apprised.

Adam said...

anonymous...

Please try e-mailing us again. It is tacomafoodcoop@gmail.com

Let us know if it doesn't work again. Thanks for your interest!

Mama Lavender said...

I am so excited to see Tacoma may be getting a food coop. Seeing as how Country Aire's closure is all but forcing us to move back to the Tacoma area this softens the blow a bit.

Anonymous said...

A couple years ago I contacted and petitioned PCC to have a branch in Tacoma or the south end. They indicated that this was not something they planned to pursue and that they were only interested in expanding in the Seattle, North of Seattle and East of Seattle locations.
Also, in answer to the Ravenna PCC going out of business other factors worked against that location such as the proximity of the View Ridge PCC, poor parking and a higher lease. I believe that a Tacoma Co-op will do well..just look at Marlenes?